tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11976534.post8687437040874870379..comments2023-10-23T14:02:52.339-06:00Comments on Dominican Idaho: Marmion, Boylan, Credo, ICEL...Markhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02261197566240560777noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11976534.post-62230702489539982282007-04-30T13:56:00.000-06:002007-04-30T13:56:00.000-06:00Tom wrote:I see this as one of those cases where t...Tom wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>I see this as one of those cases where there are two truths (call them the personal and the communal) that cannot both be expressed in a single word. The Latin tradition is to emphasize the personal ("Credo," "I believe"), the Greek tradition is to emphasize the communal ("Πιστεύομεν," "We believe").</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Certainly there are these aspects of truth, personal and communal; What I was trying to convey is something Cdl Arinze, commenting on Liturgium Authenticam, said about the importance of this translation being faithful to the original. The personal "I believe", in the context of the mass, is the person of Christ's body, which is one (ie: singular), thus the "communal aspect" is subsumed in it, rather than neglected.<BR/><BR/>And it is this aspect, when we are confronted with a change of a single word ("I believe..." instead of "We believe...") which the good Cardinal desires us to know the why, beyond the mere fact of "that's what it actually says." That "why" has a depth and beauty which I found to be compelling.<BR/><BR/>Marmion makes the point that if the Church were a corporation, a legal fiction, "we believe" whould be quite appropriate, as there is only a "we" and the "body" exists only as a fiction. But the Church is more than a fiction, it is a reality.<BR/><BR/>God bless,<BR/>MarkMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02261197566240560777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11976534.post-74800386356043009742007-04-30T13:19:00.000-06:002007-04-30T13:19:00.000-06:00We speak united to and living in the body of Chris...<I>We speak united to and living in the body of Christ, hence it is only one person, an "I," that speaks, not a mob of people, a "we" that speaks.</I><BR/><BR/>Hm. This is quite different from what I've heard elsewhere as the theological justification for praying "I" instead of "We," which is that by praying "I" each of us individually professes the common faith, whereas as an individual I can say "We" meaning "The Church, but not in this instance me."<BR/><BR/>I see this as one of those cases where there are two truths (call them the personal and the communal) that cannot both be expressed in a single word. The Latin tradition is to emphasize the personal ("Credo," "I believe"), the Greek tradition is to emphasize the communal ("Πιστεύομεν," "We believe").<BR/><BR/>Either way, though, we ought to be aware of what we're saying and why.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14850575419673561383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11976534.post-79037364623048358892007-04-27T11:08:00.000-06:002007-04-27T11:08:00.000-06:00While I can understand the importance of the onene...While I can understand the importance of the oneness of the Body of Christ, as well as the importance of saying "I" in the creed, I don't think I can agree with this particular assessment. We as individuals say the creed as a reminder of our baptismal promise, a reminder of the time when we came to join, not when we were already joined. And even being part of the Body of Christ, we are still affirming our own continuing decision to believe.<BR/><BR/>Christ doesn't <I>believe</I> in Himself or His Divinity. He knows. We <I>believe</I> in it because, even with what knowledge we may have, it's imperfect and incomplete. We're assenting to belief in something beyond our knowledge and understanding, a mystery of One God in Three Divine Persons.<BR/><BR/>In the LDS framework, we wouldn't be assenting to a belief in something beyond our finite minds to understand. A material god is a limited god, one that can be understood and grasped—one to which we can someday be equal. That is not what we as Catholics believe in as God.Deacon Bill Burnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11484509700642430451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11976534.post-65840479858386922022007-04-26T20:06:00.000-06:002007-04-26T20:06:00.000-06:00Thank you, Mark, for this meditation. I must admi...Thank you, Mark, for this meditation. I must admit to never having thought of the critical importance of the first word of the Creed -- in fact, it never occurred to me to notice the change in the English translation, even after our weekly exposure to the original Latin! It just goes to show how deeply runs the importance of words.Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.com